27, living in Esztergom, Hungary
Working at Sun.hu as a contractor since July 2000 an employee since September 2005

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kedd május 31, 2005
General
Castle of Estergon?
2005-05-31 09:06:23.0

A Hungarian news portal reports that the castle of Esztergom (pictured on the top of the page) was rebuilt in Ankara, Turkey's capitol:

I really don't know what to say. Occupation of Hungary is probably a glorious moment of history for Turkey. Esztergom was a very significant town of medieval Hungary (capitol until the 13th century then seat of the archbishop). Suleyman occupied the castle in 1543, then it was retaken in 1595 by joint Hungarian/Austrian/German forces. In 1605 Turks occupied it for a second time. The last siege in 1683 led by Polish/Bavarian/Austrian forces completely destroyed every house of the town and left the county in ruins. In the 15th century the area had one of the highest population density in Hungary. By the end of the 17th century most of the families were either killed, taken as prisones or escaped the horrors of war and dual taxation to more fortunate places. After the last siege the town never reached it's former significance - although the archbishop seat moved back and the Church even erected a new cathedral on the Castle Hill. People slowly moved in from other parts of the country. Many German, Slovak, Croat, Serb families came which is still reflected in many family names (although the people themselves rarely speak their ancestor's language).

Last December I was walking the streets of Grenoble, amazed by the old buildings. Then I suddenly realized that my home town could have such old buildings if the Kingdom of Hungary had better diplomacy towards Turkey. I'm fond of science fiction stories, especially alternative histories... So, what if Hungary allowed Turkish forces to pass through the country unharmed in the 16th century, or even allied itself with Turkey instead of going to war with an Empire 10 times larger in both size and manpower? I guess Suleyman would have occupied Vienna and Prague instead of Buda. Habsburgs would flee to Spain. The German territories would unite against the common threat (remember this is the time of Martin Luther, so even reformation could lose it's reach if suddenly a pagan invador was there to threaten Europe). Alternatively Suleyman could have turned towards Italy, captured/allie with Venice, and besieged and took Rome... of course this means Michelangelo's and other master's works would probably be destroyed (remember, islam doesn't allow humans to be displayed in arts).

Could these events have happened if Hungary decided not to fight the Turkish invasion? Who knows... Too bad Poul Anderson is no longer with us to tell the story...

Permalink Comments [6]
Trackback URL: http://blogs.sun.com/csj/entry/castle_of_estergon
Comments:

Your comment " (remember, islam doesn't allow humans to be displayed in arts)." shows you don't know much about Islam. If you had ever tried to "learn" about Suleyman (and other Ottoman kings), you would have known that Suleyman employed artists to draw pictures of "humans" on Royal encyclopedias of his time. If you studied a bit more, you would also learn that Ottomans also saved protestan Hungarians (under the leadership of Hungarian prince Tokeli Imre) from the oppression of Catholic Austrian Empire of that time.

Posted by Fatih Asar on június 28, 2005 at 02:04 DU CEST #

Fatih,

I didn't mean to offend you at all. Still the Castle Museum of Esztergom shows exhibition of many statues and pictures destroyed in those days. Many Corvinas (Matthias Rex's library) were destroyed or gone missing after Buda's occupation by Suleyman. If this "no human faces in arts" is a misconception then I think many Hungarians share it with me (I'd have to dig up my history books to see what I was tought).

Posted by Janos on június 28, 2005 at 02:24 DU CEST #

With regards to your comment "..If this "no human faces in arts" is a misconception then I think many Hungarians share it with me..";
I believe Hunagrians do share the same ignorance on this subject with you. However, many people in Europe also share the same ignorance with Hungarians so don't feel so bad about it.
If you are working st Sun, you must be a clever fella. Clever people avoid from generalizations or coming to a conclusiong building the whole arguement on something that doesn't have a complete relation with the issue being questioned.
Judging "islam" as religion by looking at the actions of a person or a group of people 9even if they have been repeated frequently) is same as coming out with a statement like "Christians hate jews, because Hitler was a Christian".
So wrong and not very clever.

Posted by Alain Selva on július 15, 2005 at 05:43 DE CEST #

Maybe you guys should check a little bit more on your Ottoman history before you throw it all on Christian prejudice. Even though marvelous manuscipts with drawings depicting humans were produced in the classical Ottoman period (partly a Persian influence) the Ottoman troops and craftsmen did damage the iconography of numerous churches in the Balkans, most notably Hagia Sophia, either during conquest or suppression of revolts or during the conversion of churches into mosques. And generalizations can go either way--viewing Islam or the Ottomans entirely positively based on the actions of another part of the whole is not necessarily more accurate.

Posted by Evan Liaras on július 24, 2006 at 01:33 DU CEST #

Evan, Your comment "before you throw it all on Christian prejudice." does not make any sense as noone is throwing anything on christians and noone is blaming christians here.

Obviously you have lots of prejudice againist muslims or anything to do with muslims - you don't even understand what you read.

Posted by Alain Selva on augusztus 11, 2006 at 02:45 DE CEST #

I used the phrase "Christian prejudice" instead of your expression "ignorance of many Europeans" because I think the concepts are equivalent for this discussion. Now if your understanding of my comment is that I have lots of fanatical prejudice against Muslims, maybe you also don't understand what you read.

Posted by Evan Liaras on október 24, 2006 at 10:13 DE CEST #

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