How The Game Is Played

http://blogs.sun.com/gameguy/date/20050708 Friday July 08, 2005

The Incredible Abstractness of Mathematics

Hello All,

Its been a bit I know since my last blogging effort. What with E3 and project issues at Sun I've rather had my hands full. Over the July 4th shut down I've been rebuilding the back of my house-- basically tearing out a very bad attempt to enclose a deck and doing it as a proper addition with stud walls and a real roof. I also had to replace the deck itself as it had totally rotted out. Its a comparatively small space, about 4' by 10', but its kept me busy over break.

Which, oddly enough, brings me to my next topic. A somewhat philosophical musing this time.

The other day I was explaining to my wife as we looked over my framing that, even with all the right tools and leveling, perfect 90 degree angles just don't exist in the real world. Even in a factory situation with jigs you only get within some fraction of a degree of tolerance to the intended angle. This brought back something I've talked to friends about before....

Kesselman's Contention: Math is the most perfect AND the most abstract science.

These two things go together. Math is a perfect science because it is entirely internally consistent. Even when someone throws away a postulate, such as the inventors of non-euclidian geometry did, all that happens is the body of theorems that is math extends itself. There is no such thing as a failed prediction in math as long as you do your proofs right.

In contrast, most other sciences have to periodically back-track and re-adjust their entire structure when they run into failed predictions. A failed prediction is when the theory predicts an event that does not match with what actually ocurrs in the real world. Its how science knows its made a mistake.

But math is totally abstract and has nothing to do with the real world and so never has to check itself against the real world. Now I hear a whole bunch of mathematicians out there starting to raise their voices in protest to this statement but hear me out.

Take the example above. We commonly talk about perfect 90 degree angles in math. Trigonometry is based on them. But perfect 90 degree angles do not physically exist in the real world. In fact, no exact measure exists as there is always some degree of error, however slight.

More basically, almost all of math is based at its root on a few fundemental concepts. One of them is equality. "1 apple equals another 1 apple" according to the mathematician. But equality itself does not exist in the physical world. I challenge anyone to show me two apples that are exactly the same. The same weight, the same shape -- it just doesn't exist. The world is about variety and difference, not sameness. And when you reduce all the real measurable and differing quantities of those two physical objects to a single concept of "apple-ness",you have just crossed over the line from the real, physical, measurable world into the entirely abstract world of human concepts. That is the world where math and mathematicians really dwell.

Note that the mathematical concept of equality is not the same mathematical concept as identity. Identity is "1 apple equals itself." Identity exists, but equality does not.

And if equality is an abstract concept that has no physical reality, neither does anything built ontop of it, which is the entire body of mathematics.

Mathematics is beautiful. Mathematics is pure. I love that about it. But I also contend that its beauty and purity come from the fact that it is entirely artificial, a logical construct of the human mind, with no basis in the physical world at all.

A perfect abstract science.

Comments:

I wholly agree. I came to the same conclusion about three or four years ago. Everything about math is arbitrary. The only thing that matters is that it is internally consistent. However, the evolution of math is not as abstract. There are plenty of good books on math's history. I suggest books by Eli Maor. I do want to rise to your challenge. I will *show* you two apples that are exactly the same. All you have to do is put a mirror behind your apple. You see one apple in reality and you *see* the exact same apple in the mirror. You might be interested in some of the essays on my site such as "Oh, For the Love of Thought."

Posted by Brant Gurganus on July 08, 2005 at 11:58 PM EDT #

Your comment authentication has a bug as it asked for 89+9 and I answered 98 which is confirmed by Google. However, it said the authentication failed.

Posted by Brant Gurganus on July 09, 2005 at 12:00 AM EDT #

Hi! Thanks for the comments. Ill have to add the author you suggested to my reading list. Another of my long time favorite auhtors is also a mathematician-- Martin Gardner.

I"ll rise to the challenge of your mirror with three observations:

First of all, the reflected apple is just that, a reflection only. It has no mass nor the quality of edibleness so its definitely different from the apple.

The images themselves are reflections of each other so even the images arent equal. I would grant you howevre that you could apply a mathematical correction (a transform) to the mirrored image to fix that BUT...

Most importantly, just as there are no perfect 90 degree angles in the real world, there are also no perfect reflectors. Subtle imperfections in the mirror will make the reflected image slightly different even if transformed into the same space as the original.

Good thought though. I had to think about it for a bit!

Oh and sorry abotu the comment mechanism. Its flaky. It even gives us bloggers grief. (I had to type this twice myself.)

Posted by Jeff Kesselman on July 09, 2005 at 02:59 AM EDT #

You can have two fundamental particles (pick your favorite) that are equal in every KNOWN way. In fact, it's more like "instances" in code, because at that level, physists can say that they are equal AND identical. There is no difference at that level and in fact could be considered the same thing except that there will respond uniquely to their own unique interactions with other particles. It is more like data/information than the way we think of physically obejcts (which, in reality, are macro-objects). Additionaly, I would say that logic (and discrete data) is the most perfect and abstract scienece, as it is the fundation of math as well as being much greater (math does not focus on data structures) AND it is the truest analogy to physical reality (and most likely identical to it!)

Posted by Shawn Kendall on July 09, 2005 at 11:46 AM EDT #

Off-topic, but what has happened to javagaming.org? I haven't been able to connect to the new forum for days. Jeff, have you been reconstructing the JGO web-server as well? :o)

Posted by Sean Jones on July 09, 2005 at 06:24 PM EDT #

I think it'd be awesome to find a forum that discusses the philosphy of math like this but have never really come across one. I think discussing some of those hard to believe or understand things like 1.99999999... =2 or that 1/0 is not equal to infinity and so forth makes those things and things that depend on them easier to understand.

Posted by Brant Gurganus on July 10, 2005 at 02:16 AM EDT #

I don't think this observation is news to mathemeticians. The ones I've known (and I'm thinking of folks like MIT's Professor Rota) would agree that math is essentially a branch of applied philosophy rather than a "science", since it manipulates abstract symbols and produces statements/results whose truth defined only by the mathematical system. It happens that this particular philosophical system is remarkably useful for modelling and predicting real-world occurrances... but one should not confuse the model with the thing it's modelling. The models may only be accurate for particular domains of data, the data being passed through them may not have been gathered accurately, and so on.

Posted by Joe Kesselman on July 11, 2005 at 09:52 AM EDT #

... though I should add that, relatively recently, fast computing has created the field of "experimental mathematics" which comes closer to resembling experimental science. A websearch on that phrase will turn up more info and flamage about it.

Posted by Joe Kesselman on July 11, 2005 at 01:43 PM EDT #

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