Sunday October 09, 2005
There's a great thread on Slashdot titled Java
Urban Performance Legends. It's mostly thrashing out urban performance
legends in garbage collection, but you can find them all over the place.
Modern Java VMs really are quite fast, often beating C and C++ in all
sorts of benchmarks. Another common urban performance legend is that "Java
must be slow because there's no way to turn off subscript checking": this
one is completely false because all modern JVMs have optimizers that do a
great job of eliminating subscript checking.
There was a funny incident at a recent developer event where some folks had a booth where they where demo-ing a high end industrial strength C compiler and had a benchmark that they had transliterated into Java. They were comparing their compiler to GCC and Java. GCC was running at about 2/3 the performance of this high end compiler; the Java version was running at about 2/3 the performance of the GCC version. Folks were gathered around the booth and someone noticed that the script they were using to run the Java version didn't have optimisation turned on. A few seconds with vi to add the "-server" switch and Java's performance jumped up to match the fancy C compiler. This got the pro-GCC crowd all excited, so a bunch of them started fiddling with its command line switches. They got a bit of improvement, but not much (the original selection had been pretty good).
The one place where Java does have a legitimate remaining performance issue is startup time. But these days it's down small enough to where anything that runs more than a few seconds has a hard time noticing it. Most startup time in modern Java apps goes to the app itself, not the VM.
Soon after this AltaVista moved to rewriting all of its front end in java. I left to do other things, but was told that it was a great success. (Now if only they had listened to me 5 years previously when I told the CEO that they were not making the best of the resource hidden inside hyperlinks...)
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The last time I made a major attempt at using a Java app was when I ran JavaHMO, an add on application to lets my PC talk to my TiVO.
TiVo offers similar software, called TiVo Desktop, it consumed about 30Mb of RAM when maximized and less than 10Mb when minimized.
I installed JavaHMO, which admittedly had several features not found on the TiVo Desktop software, but even after disabling all the features not found on the TiVO Desktop JavaHMO consumed over 150Mb of RAM when running as a service. That's a larger footbrint than Windows itself. Or we could talk about the Java based remote
console application built into newer HP servers, a browser session with this running (using IE or Firefox) uses up almost 300Mb of RAM. Compare this with Win32 apps like VNC or Proxy that use well under 20Mb of RAM.
The problem with Java is that the Sun JVM (at least the Windows one) is a ridiculous resource hog and that almost all Java apps require specifically the Sun JVM (ruling out the use of a different JVM). What good is it to be "platform independent" if you are still dependent on a particular vendor's (poor performing) component?
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Java's Virtual Machine abstracts the internals of the hardware and the operating system away from a requirement of knowledge (when programming languages like C) to an often fuzzy understanding.
Java has gotten some unwarranted bad press of it's performance because many programmers are failing to understand the nuances of performance.
If Java suffers in the performance stakes, then it is due to the addition of simplicity as a feature of the language. One cannot speak of one data set (performance metrics) without correlating associated measures.
Yes, Java is often slower, but time-to-market is as much a driver for the success of software as performance is. I believe that it takes shorter time to get a debuggged application into the market if written in Java than it would if written in C. Project Runtime is shorter, even if Application Runtime is longer.
Speedier application delivery saves money - maybe enough money for an extra couple of meg of RAM! - and keeps the wolf from the door.
Me, I'm surprised that java -server (from the originating piece) made such a difference! It must have been partially due to their test suite.
EB
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IMHO, the biggest Java advantage over C/C++ is reliability. I've been doing a lot of C/C++ on a project recently and the lack of garbage collection, array bounds checking, and a decent stack trace is a huge problem. We have a nagging bug now that shows up in production after hours of use. We have not been able to reproduce the bug on our test systems. It sounds like a memory issue, but without a stack trace it has been a real problem.
I wrote C/C++ code for years, I even liked it. Now I am of the opinion that it is very difficult to build reliable software of any reasonable size in C/C++. Sure, it can be done, but it takes a lot of discipline and attention to detail. What is the reward? A smaller footprint? I haven't seen small footprint software in years! Startup time? Firefox takes far too long to startup. I don't get...
If anyone has any ideas, I'm all ears...
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I've often heard that Java is as fast as C++, usually with explanations of theoritical optimaztion opportunities, but actual data is hard to come by. I've done a few benchmarks myself with mixed results.
I've published my prime finding benchmarks that show Java, C#, and C++ running at roughly the same speed on Mac and Windows.
I also ported GNU Chess from C to Java, and the Java code seems to be about 60% as fast as the C code. The Java code is still C-style with few objects and lots of static methods.
Finally, I've tried numerical operations like large matrix multiplications (nothing published), and Java was about 10 times slower than C. Apparently, the nested loops were beyond the ability of the ranged subscript optimizations mentioned in the original posting. (This was using Java 1.4.2 about 2 years ago in case there have been significant improvements since then.)
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