James Gosling: on the Java Road

I had the same feeling when I embarked on my Ph.D. work. My adviser never produced the sage advice yours did. Instead I came to it myself and through a friend. She told me that I just needed to start writing it.

How true!! Jini does demonstrate what can be done in distributed computing when we do away with the problem of language transformations that gripped CORBA.

Posted by M. Mortazavi on October 04, 2005 at 10:06 PM PDT #

When I clicked on the title for this entry, I didn't for a split second think you'd be talking about JINI James! Liked the SOA Buzzword posting as well.

Just wanted to clarify the "java-only universe" thing for less JINI-aware readers. Certainly JINI requires the presence of a bunch of JVM's to do it's magic (given the requirement for class downloading etc) but what it doesn't require is that services be implemented entirely in Java. There are a myriad of solutions available that, for example, would allow a web service to be available via JINI. Thus legacy integration is plenty possible if you require it.

Posted by Dan Creswell on October 05, 2005 at 09:10 AM PDT #

I'll second what Dan wrote about using Jini with other non-Java services. I would say the majority of the services I've implemented to work with Jini haven't been written in Java.

Posted by Steve Pietrowicz on October 05, 2005 at 09:33 AM PDT #

Hope you read this comment, first of all i got to congratulate you for what you have done, since i know JAVA a get in love with it, and hate M$.Love at first sight like one of my teachers said. Good post for SOA, wonder if you can comment about AOP, because i see that it's a lot controversy about if breaks the OOP, whats your opinion on that issue, for me it's too complex, and a good SOA can help as well the AOP do, but with more code, but we have to consider that the "programmers usability"(i see that concept from a Sun One presentation about EJB 3.0, making a reference to EJB in the past) it's important, and i think that AOP commit that sin.

Posted by Efrain G on October 05, 2005 at 01:00 PM PDT #

Hello James, I picked up on your comment about preparing a thesis, and can totally appreciate the "keep it simple" advice.

Posted by Ian Lamont on October 05, 2005 at 07:47 PM PDT #

Well being more from an interactive design realm the thesis was pritty simple task ;)- u just start writing and hope the dude reading it has fallen alseep by the second page (the rest of the document was just readme.txt files from photoshop- oh and yellow text on red paper helps). JINI: i wish i had more time to play with it! gurrrr... thanks to Dan and his Blitz project i do get to do some cool tests for a project we are doing privatly here at the arto'. i'm always being suprised at what it can do everytime i have a splash- thanks Dan and James, and Ken (must thank Ken Russell whenever one can)...

Posted by Anthony Rogers on October 06, 2005 at 03:02 AM PDT #

But this is the opposite of product development! Products (free or commercial is not an issue) developers always tend to feature pack their babies. They try to address all the (IT) world's problem and this leads to overly complex platforms that sooner or later are dismissed in favor simpler ones that just solve better that original problem to solve which you chose the platform. So we are ready to start it all over again. Java is no difference. I use Java but I see that Java is getting bigger and bigger and I don't know what more than 50% of it is about. And J2EE is the same: you start with limited features, then you add more features and later on you discover that it's getting too complex so you decide to make it simpler but it's too late because everybody is already deploying on Tomcat+Hibernate+Spring (and right now Spring is getting bigger and bigger ...). I think that the issue you pointed out is relevant. But I also think that it is more market than technology related.

Posted by Antonio Toma on October 06, 2005 at 08:45 AM PDT #

I really like Jini, despite the obstacles involved when deploying your "application". I consider Jini being on one side of a very complex scale, where WS and J2EE stay on the opposite one. However, I'm really interrested in your opinion JXTA and OSGi. They both provide a completely different approach to services but are also much more complex to work with.

Posted by Erik on October 07, 2005 at 03:15 PM PDT #

While Jini leverages a lot of the Java stack, it does not have to be Java-only. I have presented several times at JCMs on extending Jini to C++ and .NET. Java comes with a beautiful "language-extension facilitator": JNI's invocation interface.

While you would be crazy to manually implement a JNI integration between C++/.NET and Jini, appropriate tools can generate that integration layer for you. Using Jini from a C++ or .NET application can be as easy (or hard ;-) as doing it from Java.

Posted by Alex Krapf on October 10, 2005 at 07:37 AM PDT #

The important thing about SOA is that the most valuable thing you have are the services. That's where you'll spend money and time. Linking the services with an appropriate layer is the most important thing you'll do. If that linking creates additional work, or causes your services to suffer from it's implementation, then it doesn't really matter what you've chose to implement you services in.

With Java and Jini together, you get a portable platform that allows you to move your services to any particular OS/platform that supports Java. Plus, by choosing Jini, you get to pick the appropriate wire protocol for your services to talk, at deployment time, and you can, with appropriate deployment, switchout the wire protocol, or customize it per connection. This means that over the lifetime of your SOA, you have the flexibility to maintain performance, and costs at whatever level is appropriate.

When you choose web services, you are choosing a common wire protocol, which has no flexibility, you don't get to change things without the other end having to change too. With the JERI stack, inside of Jini2.0, you can use SOAP in places where an RMI/serialized-Java-Object transport won't work. When you have Java on each side, you can use mobile code to send a smart proxy to the client which might actually talk using WS protocols to some services, and RMI to others wrapping them into a native Java API interface that keeps your SOA client using pure java objects and leaves you the freed to change it on the fly, as needed.

The sticking point is that you have to believe in Java. If you're using Java to do web services, then you're not using the power of Java. Java's power is in mobile code and networking. Jini's the standard, opensource platform that lets you fully exploit the power of Java to develop simple solutions for the complex issues surrounding distributed computing which in turn is a big part of creating an SOA.

Posted by Gregg Wonderly on October 14, 2005 at 10:10 PM PDT #

My major professor put it thusly: "It's supposed to be the first work of a career, not the last." we all know people who followed the second path.

Posted by Mike O'Dell on October 15, 2005 at 08:55 PM PDT #

I always told our (Carnegie Mellon Computational Linguistics) Ph.D. students they had their whole life to do their life's work. I told them the thesis was just a requirement to get a union card. I told them to think of it as practice. I preached that the ideal thesis is one decent idea backed up with excellent methodology. I told them it was harder to find flaws in a simple, methodologically perfect 100 page thesis than a sprawling 300 page masterpiece. Of course, none of them listened. They were in grad school writing theses because they were curious and had the spark and the wit to get admitted and the drive to get through classes and quals. They were like junior project managers with an A in algorithms and data structures who couldn't estimate how long something was going to take. It wasn't until they were what they thought was a a good way into writing that they had any inkling as to what I actually meant.

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The sticking point is that you have to believe in Java. If you're using Java to do web services, then you're not using the power of Java. Java's power is in mobile code and networking. Jini's the standard, opensource platform that lets you fully exploit the power of Java to develop simple solutions for the complex issues surrounding distributed computing which in turn is a big part of creating an SOA.

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