Jim Grisanzio: Sr. Program Manager, OpenSolaris Engineering

Posted by William R. Walling on May 28, 2007 at 01:28 AM JST #

good for u like your comments i am a local 669 member and love our unions in this great country!

Posted by greg on December 16, 2007 at 10:58 AM JST #

Toyota would be smart to say no to the UAW and its workers as long as possible.

Here is the Union's achievement:

As of today:
GM stock: Low of $4.55,
Net worth of company: 2.74 billion
Cash burn: 1 Billion a month
Net result: in need of a government bailout so only 90,000 jobs are terminated in a Merger with Chrysler vs. 3,000,000 in a bankruptcy.

Toyota stock: Low of $64.80
Net worth of company: 103.77 billion
Cash Burn: not a topic
Net result: The largest auto manufacturer in the world still expanding business.

I hope all of the proud Union folk are ever so proud making our auto industry so completely and totally incapable of competing on a global scale. No reap the whirlwind. I could care less about those jobs lost. Too bad... get an education. I knew a guy who worked at Delphi before that closed up shop... $30.00 an hour plus full benefits to push a broom, clean the break rooms, and keep the bushes trimmed. Upon being forced out of his job, he was worried, in his words "because I don't have any skills that will earn $30.00 an hour anywhere else."

Well, the gravy train is over... sorry.

WHEN the merger of GM and Chrysler happen, expect UAW negotiating position to be weak for "the greater good." The greater good being those of us who don't want our economy to tank because of the greed of unskilled workers.

Have a nice day

Posted by Justin on November 07, 2008 at 02:57 AM JST #

Justin and Mark:
Please refer back to real history, real events, actual reporting from the Industrial
period of Europe and US forward. The labor unions formed because of corporate Robber
Barons in Mining, Milling, Manufacturing, Shipping, Trucking, etc who literally worked
the employees to death, refused to pay for basic safety measures, regularly pitted
worker against worker in a bidding war for who would work cheapest... the list goes on.

Would you like hard facts? Visit Ludlow, Colorado. A bleak spot on the prairie and site of the Ludlow-Massacre of initially peaceful
miners on strike for a living wage and safe mining conditions:
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ludlow_Massacre

There are far far more examples too numerous to begin to mention.

Whilst there were employers who took a higher moral ground and had a sense of
"nobless obligue" , who actually cared for their employees, these were few and far between.

If it were not for the rise of the labor unions from that time period, you would not
have a 40 hour week, reasonable and equitable pay, "similar pay for similar work",
health care, or even paid days off!

At that time the pendulum was on the side of Big Business. Over time the Pendulum has
swung the other direction and one must acknowledge some abuses on the side of unions. Balance is vital.

Further difficulties arise in a global economy, where a living wage in Asia is 10% or less than a living wage in US or Europe. Is the Corp going to outsource jobs to the source of cheap labor or not? If they don't outsource, can they compete, will they go under? If they do outsource, what happens to their existing employees? If those employees no longer have a job and cannot pay to consume the products the Corp produces, will the Corp go under?

Further issues: true "free trade" vs government subsidies, tarifs, etc etc

Posted by sdr on December 06, 2008 at 04:24 AM JST #

A couple other massacres when people stood up for labor rights:

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Centralia_Massacre_(Washington)

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Everett_Massacre

Labor has a bloody past, and it's no wonder with quotes like this from Wiki, " ...the Snohomish County sheriff Donald McRae, who had targeted Wobblies for arbitrary arrests and beatings."

If we look at the suffering of our early Labor Leaders who laid the groundwork for what we have today, we see that we owe them everything. With out the foundations that they established then with their blood, we could be fighting those bloodbaths today.

Posted by S. Jones on December 12, 2008 at 03:35 AM JST #

SDR....

"Please refer back to real history, real events, actual reporting from the Industrial period of Europe and US forward. The labor unions formed because of corporate Robber Barons in Mining, Milling, Manufacturing, Shipping, Trucking, etc who literally worked the employees to death, refused to pay for basic safety measures, regularly pitted worker against worker in a bidding war for who would work cheapest... the list goes on."

The "list" as you call it is now regulated by federal and state law, various admins and bueracracies that are too numerous to count. For the time period that you are referring to, the point is made. At current and going forward, with the legal climate, ie liability, being what it is, unions have no purpose in the matter, except to drive up the costs of producing goods, add unneeded politics, and frankly, the dues are barely more than an added tax for services provided by union leadership, who's interests mirror those of the current breed of Chicago style politician... sell off public interest to the highest bidder.

"Would you like hard facts? Visit Ludlow, Colorado. A bleak spot on the prairie and site of the Ludlow-Massacre of initially peacefulminers on strike for a living wage and safe mining conditions:
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ludlow_Massacre."

You may have a point.... in 1914. Not today. Sorry.

"Whilst there were employers who took a higher moral ground and had a sense of "nobless obligue" , who actually cared for their employees, these were few and far between.

If it were not for the rise of the labor unions from that time period, you would not have a 40 hour week, reasonable and equitable pay, "similar pay for similar work", health care, or even paid days off!"

Thanks for making my point. "That time" as you so eloquently put it, is gone.

"At that time the pendulum was on the side of Big Business. Over time the Pendulum has swung the other direction and one must acknowledge some abuses on the side of unions. Balance is vital."

There is no need for this balance in "our time." The average pay of UAW workers, all the way from pushing a broom to clipping on a rocker mldg, taking into consideration legacy costs, is over $70.00 an hour. You say "one must acknowledge some abuses on the side of Unions." I say witness the abuses in the form of market caps of our automakers. It's absolutely pathetic. Talk about biting the hand that feeds you. This is more akin to chopping it off and sticking it where the sun don't shine on the body.

I'll enlighten you as to this country's mantra: "Me!" "Me now!" You're a history person. Tell me, what's the basis of our constitution and what is our Government's structure designed to manage? Greed.

"Further difficulties arise in a global economy, where a living wage in Asia is 10% or less than a living wage in US or Europe. Is the Corp going to outsource jobs to the source of cheap labor or not? If they don't outsource, can they compete, will they go under? If they do outsource, what happens to their existing employees? If those employees no longer have a job and cannot pay to consume the products the Corp produces, will the Corp go under?"

Let me answer your question, and you needn't be a scholar to see this coming. Our country will, in some time, be based on service, distribution, and retail.

Services will continue to grow and specialize into niches. These services will range all the way from insurance, investing, banking, and brokering (white collar to include technologies [still alive, no unions]) to skilled trades such as auto repair, construction, and various sectors of transportation down to unskilled labor cleaning dog doo, sweeping floors, making fries, etc. Categorize these folks however you see fit.

Distribution will grow as our country continues to consume. Frankly, instead of manufacturing, our path will be warehousing and stockpiling.

In hand and down wind... retail. Retail will continue to grow because our standard of living demands it. Not too long ago I lived in Montana. The average household in Montana, at that time, I believe brought in 24K a year. And yet retail still continued to expand. I travel there every year. What's constantly growing is retail. There's always more. One needn't understand it to see it.

To further make my point, look at the new generation of multitaskers we have to take our stead. Whilest many would say that each person has his/her place, I frankly don't see it in generations coming up. I don't see these people "getting their hands dirty." These are people who are well in tune to technology and information. Factory jobs will not be for them.

To answer your question, again... "do they outsource?" For sure.
"What happens to their existing employees?" They need to seek out training to do something. In a world of seemingly unending bailouts, I'm quite confident those who have to train and gain viable skillsets will quite easily be able to find them, that is, if they have the fortitude and determination to seek it out for themselves. They will inevitably have jobs and continue to consume. Which leads to the Wal-Mart hater, Tom, below you....

Tom says, "Walmart is a perfect example of why we need unions. The company has been repeatedly caught cheating its employees out of wages. They opennly abuse the states they operate in by forcing their workers onto the public healthcare systems. While the "Walton Family" members are all billionaires. The company can easily afford to treat its employees in a respectful manner by paying a decent wage and offering healthcare. It chooses not to."

I love the "facts" on this site.. http://wakeupwalmart.com/facts/
It appears they haven't been updated since 2005. I guess the whiners that came up with the site stopped updating once they themselves got fat. Typical.

The fact is that most Wal-Mart workers are UNSKILLED. UNSKILLED labor SHOULD NOT EARN what SKILLED labor earns. It takes no skill to stock a shelf and hardly any more to run a chash register. I did both while in college, at Wal-Mart, for reference. There is no place in the current environment for unskilled labor to be making 20 or more dollars per hour (adjusted regionally for standard of living against the midwest.) If you believe that one should be able to support a family on unskilled labor while working only a 40 hour work week, then you are looking for a handout and you are not of the mentality to pull yourself up by the bootstraps in order to make a difference in your life, your family's life, your neighbor's life, up to and including the rest of the country for that matter. My advice... join the military. You will serve, and they will give you skills. For reference... I never served in the military.

And finally, to respond to these odes...

"A couple other massacres when people stood up for labor rights:

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Centralia_Massacre_(Washington)

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Everett_Massacre

Labor has a bloody past, and it's no wonder with quotes like this from Wiki, " ...the Snohomish County sheriff Donald McRae, who had targeted Wobblies for arbitrary arrests and beatings."

If we look at the suffering of our early Labor Leaders who laid the groundwork for what we have today, we see that we owe them everything. With out the foundations that they established then with their blood, we could be fighting those bloodbaths today."

It is good to reflect on the past in order to better your future, but dwelling is no good, and relevence to the current situation is paramount. 1916, 1919? How do these relate whatsoever to the current legal environment and institutions created as a result of these historical events? THEY DON'T. It's a new age...

Owe them (early Union Leaders) everything? Jeebus! They've gotten everything there is to get! There's no more to give! Wake up, dude! HA HAH.... maybe you'll understand when GM's, Ford's and Chrysler's legacy costs are gone and restructuring is near completion. Or, when they are gone.

Have a nice day

Posted by Justin on December 14, 2008 at 01:05 AM JST #

lingeringmethane,

Who will train the workers? Unions don't train them now... unions aren't in the business of training workers. Vocational schools are a great place for an otherwise unskilled person to at least learn a skill or trade. You also asked who will watch out for the workers if they are put in an unsafe environment. Have you ever heard of OSHA? Look it up and learn for yourself that there are organizations out there that have nothing to do with labor unions, but still exist to protect workers against unsafe working conditions.

Unions were useful back when they were truly needed. Today we're in a global environment and unions are their own worst enemy, as they force companies to send their manufacturing jobs overseas where the labor wagers are lower, just so that they can stay competitive with manufacturers from all over the world.

Union membership has been on the decline for many years now and there's no sign that the trend is going to change.

Posted by Critical Thinker on December 15, 2008 at 11:36 AM JST #

SDR,

In your defense Unions had made great advancements in our industrial growth, without them our current times would be very different. That being said all good business gets destroyed by simple greed and dis-concern for people outside the group. That group could be the union or the committee or the office building. They served their time and the only way to keep the union in our society is if they return to the standards that formed them. It is not a laborers union anymore it is corporation all it's own. And is more of a cancer trying to spread throughout every division of industry and even throughout the corporate ladders. The workforce of today is trying to rid itself of this cancer but it keeps popping it's greedy little head up everywhere it can. SAVE THIS COUNTRY and Close the unions that will cost us less jobs than killing the industries.

Posted by Tim on December 17, 2008 at 03:48 AM JST #

I don’t think you are being too critical in your thinking here. Unions aren’t in the business of training… Hmmm, here are some web sites for you to do a little research on:
Njatc.org UA.org IUOE.org Boilermakers.org
Look at the training that is MADATORY to become and continue to be a current member of each of these unions. They are very extensive, the certifications and continuing ed. available is vast, and not to mention the training school that was put together for the training and advancement of instructors.
Vocational schools how a good idea in theory are not practical due to the fact they are under funded and use outdated curriculums and equipment.
I wonder how OSHA was developed, wait I got it! UNIONS! If you think OSHA is anything more than a governing body that is in “business” to collect more money for the government then you are naive and have never set foot on a construction site or factory job. They are reactive just like all of government. 90% of the time they show up after an incident. Without a union around I wonder how many workers will loose their jobs for making the call to OSHA.
I love how people stereotype all unions due to a couple bad seeds. Unless you know the TRUE history of the labor agreements and relationships between labor and management as well as the irresponsible business practices of the company you cannot have an intelligent conversation on the issue. Look it up. Take you own advice bud.
Global Environment? So the US is the only country with unions? Critical Thinker?...

Posted by lingeringmethane on December 20, 2008 at 01:08 PM JST #

I think it's important for pro-union people to understand that manufacturing jobs are on the decline in the U.S. Our economy is well under way to becoming a service economy, which naturally means that union membership will continue in its long decline. Unskilled labor (a staple of union membership) will continue to shift out of the U.S. and into more cost-efficient places around the world. Today it may be Asia and eventually it will be Africa. Globalism is here to stay, so it would be in the best interest of U.S. workers to do whatever necessary to "reinvent" themselves to prepare for the future. This may mean returning back to school to earn a degree or perhaps learning a trade. Either way, it is important for unskilled workers to understand that their opportunities will continue to shrink, regardless of whether or not they are in a labor union. Prepare yourselves for the future!

Posted by Critical Thinker on December 20, 2008 at 02:20 PM JST #

I buy Toyota because it is made in non-union factories. I work hard and make a good living and pay taxes. I'll be damned if I want my tax dollars supporting lazy UAW workers.

Posted by UnionsDestroyAmerica on December 25, 2008 at 10:32 PM JST #

I also BUY DOMESTICALLY at NON-UNION factories. I own a Toyota Sequoia which was made right here in the USA by Non-Union Americans at Toyota's Indiana plant. Thank God for Right-to-Work States.

I think they should just give GM, Ford, and Chrysler to the UAW and let them work the bailout with their retirement funds. Name your union bosses as CEOs. The UAW destroyed the hand that fed them by their greedy over-indulgences. We've paid high prices for the cars they've made over the years because of their high union wages and their exorbitant benefits. It's insane to expect us to cut our 401K or IRA contributions so we can afford to pay higher taxes so the government can subsidize UAW pork.

You want to steal my retirement to pay for yours? That's thievery.

By the way, skilled AMERICAN workers are paid well at Toyota plants and they don't have to subsidize the UAW leadership and your "idle pools of workers."

Posted by UnionsDestroyAmerica on December 26, 2008 at 02:21 AM JST #