Ramblings of a Deranged Mind
Monday Dec 29, 2008
To C or not to C? (part 2)
So here's the conclusion to my last post.In case anyone hasn't figured it out, I'm running OpenSolaris 2008.11 and apparently our open source, developer focussed, Web 2.0 community targetted, Linux alternative operating system it doesn't include any of the C header files in /usr/include which means that it's useless for developers.
Can anyone say oops?
BTW it also seems apparent that the compiler that was used to build OpenSolaris 2008.11 is a newer version that is used internally in Sun but it not available for external download yet. I say apparently because when I downloaded the Sun Studio 12 compilers from our external website, it's dated May 2007 and I have a comment posted that informs me the "latest" version in use is dated April 2008.
Also if you read part 1 of this blog entry, the output from the Sun Studio 12 C compiler detects OpenSolaris 2008.11 as Sun OS 5.9? WTF?
Sigh! Comments?
Posted at 10:11AM Dec 29, 2008 by samktan in IT | Comments[8]
Assuming that developers all want "C" is your first mistake; there is no "oops" about it. Second, you can get those C headers via one command. Why is that so difficult for you? Some homework for you: Does Ubuntu include a C compiler + C headers + tools, right off the CD? Your wag that "it's useless" is not well thought-out -- you could have had a completely functioning C environment in less time that it took to post this whine. Most of us have "figured it out" that 2008.11 had to make some tradeoffs to get everything to fit on a single CD.
Posted by Gronk on December 29, 2008 at 11:20 AM EST #
pkg install SUNWhea
then
http://dlc.sun.com/osol/docs/content/2008.11/OSDEV/wits2.html
or, find a way to bundle all this onto the already jammed CD iso image. And perhaps do a quick web search before ranting on a sun.com blog next time?
Posted by Tim Foster on December 29, 2008 at 11:35 AM EST #
This is a useful blog post - not a rant. I've tried installing *nix packages on OpenSolaris and failed because of library linking. C header files are related to this. If you could find a way to communicate simply and clearly to developers how to install the libraries and headers, and how to change the LDLOADPATH to point at the right places, then it would make it *much* easier to roll-your-own and not always need IPS and hope Sun has rolled it for you already. Thanks for being provocative. Where's the OpenSolaris wiki or manual or dev guide? Thanks for listening. PS The build I was trying was bitlbee server - see http://www.c0t0d0s0.org/archives/4908-Solaris-and-the-GNU-tools.html
Posted by Kevin Hutchinson on December 29, 2008 at 01:28 PM EST #
so i'm not a professional programmer, i.e. i don't get paid to do programming for a living, which means that I only have a limited amount of time each day to indulge in it, much like most hobbies that people have.
<p>
if we (sun) are to make OpenSolaris more accessible to the open source community, it has to be easy to figure out how to get things going. Note I didn't say it has to be perfect, although that would be a nice goal.
<p>
For what it's worth i *did* try to install the missing headers using the package manager but I used the GUI interface, not the command line, but there was no package that indicated that it was the missing headers. I tried searching for "C" and for "headers" and for "stdio", nothing.
<p>
Now granted obviously someone is going to say "you should have tried so-and-so command" and obviously that would be the correct incantation, but i would ask that you consider the newbie that does not have any experience with OpenSolaris, the ones that we are trying to convert from Linux and ask if we have truly done what we can to make it "accessible" to those we want to convert.
<p>
Now that I know how to get this fixed, I will get back to my "C" programming, sorry for sticking my head up.
<p>
P.S. I understand the issue about the already crammed boot CD, no arguments here, and I agree that a network install is the right way to go.
Posted by smaktan on December 29, 2008 at 01:31 PM EST #
For comparison, on my Ubuntu servers, I do this:
apt-get install linux-headers-server
apt-get install build-essential
I got a great Ubuntu book from Manning called "Ubuntu Server In Action" and that helps me a lot.
Posted by Kevin Hutchinson on December 29, 2008 at 01:35 PM EST #
smaktan, I really hope you can keep pushing Sun to make things simpler and easier for "the rest of us". You've given positive feedback to make things better. It's already a plus to have GNU userland in the default path, but there's always room for improvement. Thanks.
Posted by Kevin Hutchinson on December 29, 2008 at 01:38 PM EST #
Fair enough. In my opinion, positive feedback to make things better is a bug report: it's more likely to get to the people who can fix the perceived issue.
A helpful blog post would have been "I ran into a problem in 2008.11, and thought others might have the same problem - here's how I solved it".
A blog post that avoids the "Write about what you know" or the "Think about the consequences" sections of http://www.tbray.org/ongoing/When/200x/2004/05/02/Policy just doesn't seem that constructive to me.
Posted by Tim Foster on December 29, 2008 at 08:03 PM EST #
The headers are not on the install CD. They are in the repository, like most of OpenSolaris, because the install CD is... a CD -- it's too small to have all of OpenSolaris.
Posted by Nico on December 30, 2008 at 06:37 PM EST #