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20070213 Tuesday February 13, 2007

Pinewood Derby Racing

Every year, Duncan's school's Boy Scout troop have a Pinewood Derby racing afternoon at the school's multi-purpose room. This is the third year that Duncan has entered a car. This year he wanted to win so badly that he actually asked for my help.

This was all new to me. Last year I blogged about it but Duncan didn't want my help that year; he wanted to do it all himself, so I didn't take it any further. This year, I followed some of the links from that post and put together some ideas on what we should do:

So we came up with the design above (the orange/brown car). It lost some of its streamline-ness after I'd put the weights on, so as to get the center of gravity where it needed to be. Even though Duncan should have been doing as much of this work himself, he wasn't up to doing the cutting. He did help with the sealing, sanding and painting. I screwed the weights on.

On Sunday afternoon, we turned up early and weighed in. We were 0.2 ounces less than maximum, but Duncan didn't want me to add any more weights. We were given the option of dusting the axles with graphite dust to help reduce friction. We did this, but I think it wasn't enough. More on this below.

The races began. In the two heats that Duncan's car was in, it came last each time. Duncan was very upset. As any good parent knows, you don't like to disappoint your kids, so I started watching all the rest of the races intently to see if I could see where we went wrong and to see if I could come up with some ideas to help build a winning car for next year.

Here are my (unconfirmed) findings:

The other thing we are going to do is get a couple kits earlier than we did this year and try experimenting with different things.

It's a pity that there isn't a publically available test track that we can practice on before the next race.

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( Feb 13 2007, 07:48:54 AM PST ) [Listen] Permalink Comments [14]

Comments:

How about ball bearings for the axles?

Posted by tk on February 13, 2007 at 08:07 AM PST #

Unfortunately that's not an option. You start from an official kit for the car, then modify that.

Posted by Rich Burridge on February 13, 2007 at 08:18 AM PST #

(This from a 3 time first place winner of my troup's pine wood durby) If you REALLY want to win here is what you do: You should file the wheels so that they make a point, instead of the flat surface touching the ground, each wheel will only touch a tiny bit. Hard to explain this one. Also you should forget about the pre-made wheel slots. The further the wheels are apart from each other the faster the car. Also remember to use plenty of lube on the wheels/axles. I don't think where you place the weight matters, but its been many years, so I could be wrong. Have fun!

Posted by The Champ on February 13, 2007 at 08:30 AM PST #

I think I follow what you mean on the wheels. You suggest that they should only touch the track (say) on the outside -- in other words, you are filing across the width of the wheel. Friction is your enemy. Got it. Thanks Champ!

Posted by Rich Burridge on February 13, 2007 at 08:49 AM PST #

Correct me if I am wrong here, but wouldn't it be in the car's best interest (and yours) to move the center of gravity forward since the car traveling downward? Wouldn't that have a pulling effect on it a opposed to a pushing effect (the weight in the back)?? Just my inexperienced $0.02.

Posted by Todd Morgan on February 13, 2007 at 08:58 AM PST #

Its better to drill 2 or 4 holes under the car and place lead weights in there. Make it more than 5 oz and bring something to shave out the lead when you get to the derby. Keep shaving lead till its 5oz on their scale. The lower the center of gravity, the less likely it is to wobble.

Posted by Russ on February 13, 2007 at 09:47 AM PST #

I would have loved to have had a father like you. Duncan is very lucky.

Posted by Anonymous on February 13, 2007 at 10:10 AM PST #

Hi Todd,

The race track starts with a good downhill part then it's flat the rest of the way. See this image for a rough idea.

I found the idea for "center of gravity one inch in front of rear axle" on the web somewhere. I had a quick google search today, and didn't come across it again. I found another site that suggests something different. I'm still not convinced that positioning of the weight in a specific point is the most important design consideration.

Posted by Rich Burridge on February 13, 2007 at 11:44 AM PST #

I remember doing this as a kid, and winning a fair amount, too. Here are some tips I can offer: 1) With regards to the comment about filing the wheels, lots of Cub Scout Packs require that the wheel placement (and wheels) be standard -- check with the Pack leaders in advance to see what rules they will be using. 2) Aerodynamics may not be overly important, but every bit helps. All my designs were wedge-shaped. The best-performings ones didn't have a flat back-end, either -- remember that a station wagon (estate) is more aerodynamic than a sedan, and you're on the right track, so to speak. Also, paint with glossy paint, sand, and overcoat with clear gloss. Keep car polished. Use decals (like for plastic models) and avoid stickers. 3) I agree with the comment about putting the weights on the bottom. We used lead fishing weights in holed drilled into the bottom (about the middle of the car, so 1 - 1 1/2 inches from the rear axle sounds right) but I also used wood putty to cover the holes. (See aerodynamics, above.) 4) Weight is important. I used an antique letter scale to measure my car, with 5oz of fishing weights as a calibration (I took the 5oz to a high-school, and used the digital scales to make sure it was accurate). Weigh at home, and have your weights sealed in the car (see above.) 5) Graphite is *VERY* important. Do it early and often, once your car is assembled. You almost cannot have too much. 6) Finally, chuck all 4 wheels into a drill with a nail and sand the running services slightly. It will remove small burrs and/or imperfections from the plastic molding and make them run better. Also, hold the wheels still while the chucked nail spins around. This does the same for the insides of the wheels, again removing any excess plastic left from molding. Good luck!! I had lots of fun doing pinewood derby racing with my father.

Posted by Ken on February 13, 2007 at 02:03 PM PST #

Thanks Ken, Russ and everybody else who has commented. I think I should be much better prepared for next years competition.

Posted by Rich Burridge on February 13, 2007 at 02:13 PM PST #

I've had very good luck putting weights in the very back of the car. In my best car, I used this process to get the weight:

Remove a plug of wood from the back. It should be shaped like this. Use whatever tools you want, but best bet would be one of those tools with the small rotating sanding heads:

<-- front  back ->
---------------------
          _______    \
         |        \___\
         |
         |         ____
         |________/   /
                     /
---------------------
You now have two choices, the safe way, or the cool way.

Safe way: stick some lead fishing weights in there, fill it up with plaster. Duncan can probably do this himself, if he washes his hands after. Best place to do it would be outside on a driveway, in case of plaster spills.

Cool way: melt lead fishing weights, poor into the hole, top off with plaster to prevent curious fingers from touching it. The plaster should start at the bottom of the "funnel", so it can't come out during a race or rough handling.

-------------------------

Now, this won't help much with speed, but it'll make the car very cool. Once the car has been primed and painted, sand it down will steel wool. This makes it so smooth, it almost feels like plastic.

Posted by Anonymous, Internet Superhero on February 13, 2007 at 03:11 PM PST #

One thing I remember doing was having one of the front wheels slightly higher than the other. This reduces friction with the track since you only have 3 points of contact rather than 4.

Posted by Erik on February 13, 2007 at 09:38 PM PST #

good axles are the key to winning Take the best set of axles from several kits. A fair portion of the axles in the kits are crap so you really need several kits worths to find a good set. Spinning them in a drill press is an excellent way to see how straight they are. Once you have a decent set of axles to start with polish them with pumice to get them smoother.

Posted by Alex on February 14, 2007 at 12:09 PM PST #

The car you built can be used to test your new models. I'm sure you remember how far behind your car ended in the races. Good Luck, and I'll visit your blog for next year results. Ian

Posted by Ian on February 20, 2007 at 10:15 AM PST #

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