Friday November 23, 2007
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Witness to my life
Friday November 23, 2007 A Howard W. French questioned, on International Herald of Tribute on November 2nd, 2007, if the deeply rooted American values of democracy and check-and-balance are really superior. What if Beijing is right?
I have long explained to people that China's current governance model has existed for over 2200 years. The system experienced ups and downs over these centuries and had a bad phase from mid-1800s to early 1900s. Before that, it was the most powerful and prosperous country in the world.
Jared Diamond, in Guns, Germs, and Steel, tried this China puzzle with a geographic slice. He observed that, culturally and geographically, China is homogeneous and uniform, as contrast with Europe be heterogeneous and diversified. What's most interesting to me is America's entrance to this great social experiment few hundred years ago. In a few centuries, would some comparative governmental historians make a conclusion?
A centralized, non-elective government can make fair, but not just, decisions, faster. It can sacrifice few for many — economically right decisions but sometime not humane. To avoid debilitating corruptions, China has a power transfer scheme that has worked quite well for the past 30 years.
Are democracy and freedom-of-speech good for all civilizations all the time? Americans viewed this very question as religiously condemnable. You can hardly blame them. Their mere few hundreds years of experience had hardly been tested by any serious challenges: except for now.
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Are you kidding? Of course democracy and freedoms are right for everybody and every civilization. Just ask those in China's prisons for seeking freedom what they think. The desire for freedom and democracy is universal and self-evident. Efficiency is a poor substitute for freedom. Your entire argument reeks of ignorance of American history and a fundamental lack of understanding about the nature of free societies.
Posted by Scott on November 23, 2007 at 02:49 PM CST #
Oops, the name of China's Premier should have been correctly typed as 溫家寶總理. The Pinyin method in Solaris (I am running SXCE 76) needs some improvements. :-)
Currently, the "president" of Taiwan, Chen Shui-bian (陳水扁）is resorting to the use of racial hatred (currently there is a blatant government sponsored campaign against Chinese, or more specifically, those Chinese who or whose ancestors had not lived in Taiwan long enough to qualify for his definition of "Taiwanese") to try to help his party win the upcoming elections. Many probably won't believe that this is happening, but it is true. He is also dangerously doing everything possible to try to provoke a war with China. All these were claimed to be done "under the auspices of the 23 million people" who "elected" him (although he won by only slightly over ten thousand votes--less than 0.1%, and under a heavy cloud including an obviously self-staged assassination attempt against himself on the election eve). In 2005, Time magazine listed him as potentially one of the most dangerous persons on earth.
We of course all want to see a more democratic China. My fear is, change the name Chen Shui-bian with someone who may be democratically elected in China and the campaign of "Taiwanese vs Chinese" with "Chinese vs Americans", and our wish may turn into our worst nightmare. Fortunately, China's top leaders definitely know what they are doing. For example, Mr. Xi Jinping, China's next generation leader, is a chemical engineer with a law degree. Name any of our own leaders (senators, congressmen, presidents, etc.) who has a similar qualification?
Posted by W. Wayne Liauh on November 24, 2007 at 02:59 AM CST #
@Wayne
Spoken like a true communist.
Posted by Scott on November 25, 2007 at 12:09 AM CST #
it's a fair question. Socrates said the best way to govern is absolute power by the most virtuous person. Theory aside, looking at China's 5000 years of history, how many dynasties has lasted more than 200 years before collapsing under their own weight? I don't think it's a great track-record for aristocracy. On the other hand, American political system has lasted 200+ year without a complete overhaul or collapsing (there was 1 civil war), and it's still going strong. So, it is fair to say that American political system has been a success (and it should be studied).
Read John Adams (2nd president of U.S, who also drafted the constitution) book on Thoughts on Government. He was not religious about democracy (he is actually very wary of it), but he was pragmatic to include democracy as one of many tools to preserve order and liberty in a mixed society.
Democracy, if left unchecked, leads to mob-rule according to John Adams, and the turmoil of French Revolution shows it. Without democracy, how do you make sure all classes of society have their voice in the government (instead of giving up on the system and revolt)?
Posted by dao on November 25, 2007 at 07:19 AM CST #
Seriously, having stayed in China for slightly more than a year, i did not feel that my personal freedom is anyway compromised. I do not think that my colleagues, friends and peers in China have their personal freedom marginalized in anyway.
Of course, some parts of the world comment that my home country is nothing but mock-up pseudo-democracy. (I live in Singapore, btw)
IMO, While it's true that freedom is a Right to all men and all citizens of a nation should be represented fairly to their government. We need to consider that whether voices of the people ultimately translate into actions.
We are discussing a nation of 1.2 billion in population. Considering Sun having 30,000 employees and think about the communication challenges the management faces. Assuming that challenge to the leaders of PRC is proportion to the number of people, that is approx. 40,000. Of course, they are not the PRC, incorporated.
Once upon a time, i thought that China might do better if they take on a different approach to governance, but my stay there for a while told me that i may want to keep my opionion to myself and my eyes open.
I am not saying that China and their CCP is the ultimate solution. However, i am giving them some due credits for running the country without too much turmoil and upheaval.
At the moment, i have to quote Ex Chairperson Deng's White/Black Cat Proposition: "It matters not ,if it's a black cat or white cat, as long it catches the rats, it is a Good cat." (translated and paraphrased).
I hope i am not side-tracking, but if i may, i would strongly encourage all of you to spend some time living in China. It's really interesting to be there.
Posted by Neng Giin Yap on November 26, 2007 at 11:08 PM CST #
Someone that sais: "...i am giving them some due credits for running the country without too much turmoil and upheaval..." should go home and open the history book of the last 20 years --- Student uprising Tiananmen_Square 1989 or farmers protests 2006...
Posted by Leo PM on November 27, 2007 at 10:35 PM CST #
Thank you for pointing the counter-examples to my subjective proposition.
True. Technically, you may not be able to find these incidence on the Chinese textbooks. And i did walk along parts of the 'Chang An Da Jie' where the tanks went rolling along June 89.
With all due respect, IMO, we should view History from all angles. While it is important to consider China and its relative comparison with her Global neighbour in the modern time. As the author of this blog mentioned, that it will be insightful to consider China with Herself stretched back in time.
Just a gentle reminder, PRC came about for about 40+ years after a civil war. In a way, they do not have head start of a couple of centuries like French Republic in modern History context. People makes mistake. It's one of the ways, we learn. Not the best way though. We must admit that some are slow to learn. Me included.
While, I admit that i am simplifying too many factors and grossing over too many details. In my opinion, there is too many factors to consider to pass a fair judgment on China. So as much as possible, i will like remind my neighbours, to cast your judgement, if and only if, you have considered all views with an open.
I apologize for any misunderstanding that may arise from my comments. Sorry.
Posted by Neng Giin Yap on November 28, 2007 at 02:58 PM CST #
I actually have nothing agains a strong government control, as long as this government is elected by the citizens without any pressure and control by the current state power. But China does not even have any opposition parties, how can the people of China have any influence on thire own life? The democracy is a product of progress, we should not go back to the middle ages, like the fundamental islamic states try to do.
Of course there are countries like Russia, where we have a lot of opposition parties, but it is still a dictatorship, becuase the state power is operating a suppressive secret police that brain wash and pressure the Russian people to vote for the ruling dictator (I mean having few parties-system does not automatically garantee a democracy). But at least Russian people have a slight chance to push their will through. The Chinese people can only hope that the next "APPOINTEE" will be a bit more progressive and civilized to give people more political freedom.
As well as, I hope that Taiwanese people will use thier democratic rights to elect a smarter president who will be pro dialog with China to insure less tension in CN-TW relationship and neverthelesss would try to protect TW-independance. But this is another story...
Posted by leo PM on November 28, 2007 at 05:50 PM CST #
Mr. Scott, The failure to even try to understand a different perspective is what makes Americans seem arrogant and self-important. Another recent "development" in the american way of life, seems to be calling anyone who has a different opinion with dismissive names. Time to let the grey matter do some work.
Posted by JAF on December 01, 2007 at 03:26 AM CST #