The Java Tutorials' Weblog

pageicon Tuesday Jun 19, 2007

Layout Management and IDEs, continued...

First of all, I'd like to say a big thank you on behalf of the Java Tutorials team for the great response to the previous post, "Layout Management: Use an IDE or Code by Hand?". All your comments are of tremendous use to us, and help us enormously in improving and evolving the Tutorials. Launching this kind of public debate and finding out what you all think is precisely the reason why we set up the Java Tutorials Blog, and it is especially useful for potentially contentious subjects like this one. Rest assured that we do pay attention to your responses, and we will take them into account as we continue to update the Java Tutorials.

In your responses to the previous post, a lot of you already mentioned which, if any, IDE / GUI builders you use. To help us continue to get to know our audience better, if you haven't already told us what IDE you do or do not use, and why, then we'd really like to know.

Finally, just to be be 100% clear, we'd like to assure you that we certainly are not making the Swing tutorial (or any other part of the Java Tutorials) entirely NetBeans-oriented, and we will of course continue to provide, show, and explain the code for all the different demos and lessons.

Thanks again for your interest in the Java Tutorials!

-- Stuart Clements

Comments:

I use Eclipse 3.2 under JDK 1.5 server VM on Debian etch GNU/Linux (64-bit). I tried NetBeans, and the reason i decided not to use it was a) sluggish interactive performance, and b) ugliness (esp. fonts). I'd rather not see the tutorial use NetBeans at all. Incidentally, i think the reason for b) above is not NetBeans itself, but the Swing L&Fs on Linux (both Metal and GTK). I'd be embarrassed to deploy my Swing application on Linux. My client uses Windows, and the application always looks great. More work required there, Sun!

Posted by Paul on June 19, 2007 at 05:48 PM PDT #

I wonder if it ever comes to a kind of real "free layout". Every component has a top-/left-property for exact positioning and a height-/width-property for the size. Furthermore, I wonder why no one has thought about this kind of layout before, since it is the usual layouting used in common C++-IDEs (if I recall right: Visual C++, Borland C Builder...).

Posted by Daniel on June 21, 2007 at 02:03 PM PDT #

NetBeans rules! I often tried Eclispe, always failed. NetBeans is the reason why I started programming Java.

Posted by Klaus on June 25, 2007 at 01:25 AM PDT #

Netbeans for swing and Eclipse for rest

Posted by Riyaz Mohamed Ibrahim on June 25, 2007 at 09:53 PM PDT #

Above, you said:
Finally, just to be be 100% clear, we'd like to assure you that we certainly are not making the Swing tutorial (or any other part of the Java Tutorials) entirely NetBeans-oriented, and we will of course continue to provide, show, and explain the code for all the different demos and lessons.
This is belied by the current Swing tutorial, which says:
Note: Due to the painstaking nature of writing layout code by hand, it is strongly recommended that you use the GroupLayout layout manager combined with a builder tool to lay out your GUI. One such tool is the NetBeans IDE 5.5 Matisse GUI builder. The information provided in this lesson is only useful if you absolutely must write your layout code by hand. In this case, and if you do not want to use GroupLayout, then GridBagLayout is recommended as the next most flexible and powerful layout manager.
Please, keep the Java tutorial about teaching us how to write code, and put the NetBeans stuff somewhere else!

Posted by Paul (again) on June 25, 2007 at 11:23 PM PDT #

As the developer of an open source layout manager, may I suggest that the Swing tutorial at least make a mention of the layout managers, other than what are available in the standard JDK distribution, which in many cases are far easier to use. Of course the choice of what to mention is entirely yours. Otherwise you will continue to see an article on how difficult it is to use Swing every few months.

Posted by varan on June 26, 2007 at 02:33 PM PDT #

Hi Paul (again), You make a valid point, and we have taken note of it. Following the response to my previous post, this note recommending NetBeans has been reworded and the emphasis has been shifted back towards coding by hand. This change will be live at the next update of the Swing tutorial, in the near future. - Stuart Clements

Posted by Stuart Clements on July 04, 2007 at 08:00 AM PDT #

Tutorials should teach us the items under discussion. Period. End of story.

If you are writing the NetBeans tutorial, by all means pimp it up.

If you are writing a layout tutorial, how dare you mention NetBeans? He he he. Just (kind of) kidding. You can link to your NetBeans tutorial, but you really shouldn't make ANY comments that require us to use it in the Layout (or any other) Tutorial. NONE AT ALL.

I work in a very restrictive environment, and I was lucky to get the tutorial downloaded. If I had to know how to use software I'm not allowed to use (NetBeans) in order to accomplish the layout task I'm researching, I'd be very put out.

For the record, I am required to use a Japanese Eclipse bundle called All-In-One, which contains the visual editor and some other nifty features. Eclipse is an excellent IDE, and does everything I need quickly and effectively.

I don't want you to write about Eclipse, either. Let the Eclipse tutorials tell me how to use it.

In closing, you really should promote your SpringLayout more. Put the SpringUtilities class in the JDK, even.

Posted by Naruki on July 05, 2007 at 07:05 PM PDT #

By the way, the IDE vs. hand-coding debate becomes superfluous and a lot of hot air if the underlying Layout Manager has an API which is easy to use and comes with a GUI interface for those who don't want to code.

Try Pagelayout and the acompanying GUI interface Gola.

Posted by varan on July 11, 2007 at 08:41 AM PDT #

and help us enormously in improving and evolving the Tutorials. Launching this kind of public debate and finding out what you all think is precisely

Posted by runescape money on November 10, 2007 at 04:50 PM PST #

i love java and honestly i use netbeans for designing my program because im having a hard time doing it by hand but im really interested to learn to code layout by hand but its really hard to understand please make it more easy or not very easy but not like layout managers right now

Posted by jayson on February 01, 2009 at 02:46 AM PST #

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